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I Report 95-29158 AOA/Death Investigation December 6, 1995 terview With Bonnie Portolano Dril 2, 1996) .Age 16, 490 ... like I said, when she was gonna move her car 491 around, my partner said My God you know 492 She's gonna cause a she's gonna wreck have 493 a wreck . Just because of the stress level that 494 was so high. I,don't think it would be anything 495 that she would want to take her life. Umm 496 she wouldn't intentionally be in danger you 497 know of danger to other people or to herself. 498 But merely because of the high stress level, 499 obviously she wasn't paying attention driving 500 and that's how we got that accident umm that she 501 in. So she couldn't if she got back in her car, we ... we can't say for sure. But knowing how stressed out she was ... how she couldn't think 504 independently she was doing very poor independent 505 thinking and her thought processes were were very 506 scrambled. Umm you know we can assume that her 507 decision making would not may not be safe down the 508 road. Like if if we let her get back in the car and 509 drive home just because she is so upset, I would 510 put it on the scale of when you when you have a 511 ... a motor vehicle accident or near accident where 512 if you have an ejection. Let's just say the.husband 513 is ejected from the vehicle the wife is fine~ the 514' vehicle's fine and the husband dies on the scene. 515 The wife is totally distraught. You're not going to 516 allow that wife to get back in the car and drive to 517 the hospital.or you know if the husband is 518 injured really bad to the hospital. Umm she was under that type of I wasn't gonna let her go we'll put it that-way. If she wasn't going to go 521 voluntarily, she was going to go with a Baker Act 522 because she seemed she appeared to be not able to ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Report 95-29158 AOA/Death Investigation December 6, 1995 With Bonnie Portolano '~pril 2, 1996) 523 make a safe decision whether it be driving 524 whether it be doing anything else uh she could 525 cause something else to happen to someone else or 526 herself. 527 Det. Sudler: So, in your opinion she was Baker Act criteria? 528 Portolano: Yes. 529 Det. Sudler: If she hadn't volunteered, you you would've saw to it that she was Baker Acted by one of the 530 531 law officers there? 532 Portolano: That's why we had them wait outside the ambulance 533 until we could decide if she was*gonna go 534 voluntarily. Det. Sudler: okay. Umm do you recall the name of the umm nurse at Morton Plant' ER that you spoke to? 537 Portolano: You know I don't. Umm that night was the first 538 night I ever transferred a patient to that particular 539 nurse. U.mm and since I had my interview with you 540 the last time, I haven't seen her. So I was gonna 541 tryand find out her.name. So no, I don't I 542 don't know her name. But I would know I would 543 recognize her. 544 Det. Sudler: Okay. Umm did she ever elaborate on what she 545 meant by taking the eyes off of the _object_ or 546 Portolano: No. 547 Det. Sudler: That never came up again in conversation? 548 Portolano: No. 549 Det. Sudler: Okay. Did she say anything else about any 550 particular health problems or relationship .551 problems or anything in her life that would've brought about this period of crisis she was going through? 554 Portolano: No, she didn't mention anything like that. And 555 1 don't want to make the taking the eyes-off the ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Report 95-29158 AOA/Death Investigation December 6, 1995 erview With Bonni e Portolano ril 2, 1996) 4e 18 556 _object_ was small. It was very big. However, I 557 did not know what to do 558 559 SIDE TWO OF TAPE 560 561 Det. Sudler: Okay. We're gonna continue this tape on side two 562 as side one has ended. Bonnie, I'd like you to 563 just continue your conversation. You were discussing 564 ..umm you know what she had said about taking 565 the eyes off the _object_ and you-know what, if 566 any, relevance or you know information she gave 567 you concerning'that. Portolano: Right. I was just explaining that umm that was that was something very significant. It seemed to 570 be umm one of the most important things that was 571 stressing her. It was the ob taking her eyes off b7z the _object_ and that she had been doing bad things in 573 her mind. Umm and it-she did mention it over 574 and over and over again although I did not know how 575 to re-direct towards that because of my lack of 576 knowledge in the Scientology the Church of 577 Scientology. So it had I been educated in that, 578 1 could've you know delved further further 579 into it' But umm due to that.' due to my lack 580 of knowledge, I I didn't get more information 581- out of that. 582 Det. Sudler: Okay. Did you umm ... note any ... you know ... any 583 presence of alcohol or drugs you know any odor 584 of alcohol on her or any indication that she had been 'under the influence of any ... you know.. controlled substances. 587 Portolano: We're very aware of our patients when we come 588 across them of and the odor of alcohol mannerisms ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Report 95-29158 AOA/Death Investigation December 6, 1995 *,terview With Bonnie Portolano pril 2, 1996) .4ge 19 589 that they may display due to alcohol or drugs. And 590 she had none of those characteristics at all at all. 591 This just seemed to be someone that was very stressed 592 umm not stressed and on drugs not stressed and on 593 alcohol just stressed. 594 Det. Sudler: Did you specifically ask her ask her if she was 595 on anything? 596 Portolano: Umm my report would show me if she had any 597 pre_script_ion medications that she was taking. I 59b don't have that in front of me right now but umm 599 at the time I was not concerned with umm you 600 know have you taken more I would've pursued that line of questioning. Oh ... let's say a person was on Diazipan or ... you know ... something like that... 603 1 would go into that and see Are you taking it as 604 your doctor prescribed? But umm I I found no 605 need to question that way. So I have to say that 606 uh she probably didn't have those types of 607 medications that she was on. And and I'm not sure 608 of the history. I don't have my report in front of 609 me. 610 Det. Sudler: Okay. Do you remember what she was wearing that 611 night her clothing? Portolano: It was loose-fitting pants and what umm and a 612 613 cotton like slipover shirt I believe just 614 something really comfortable. Ummlooked like 615 she could've just had lunch with a friend kind of 616 thing. Umm, other than that,'all I remember 617 seeing her-is with nothing on and a sheet. Det. Sudler: Okay. Portolano: So I only saw her with clothes for a short amount 620 of time. 621 Det. Sudler: Okay. Umm were there any other individuals that ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Report 95-29158 AOA/Death Investigation December 6, 1995 terview With Bonnie Portolano ril 2, 3.9-96) ge 20 622 you dealt with that night at the two accidents 623 that struck you as having any you know problems 624 ... you know I mean you said that it's frequent 625 for people to be involved in accidents to be 626 emotionally distraught. Were there any other 627 people that presented this to you or was Lisa 628 a special specific type of case? 629 Portolano: Lisa was special. I mean now granted the-the 630 gentleman that she struck you know he had his 631 emotions on a on a totally different level. His 632 was anger you know. But that's totally acceptable. 633 But her her emotions were totally out of line umm ... of the norm. And uh... I had never run into someone like that ... you know ... with ... with those 636 mannerisms with that tone of voice umm and the 637 ... the eye contact. 638 Det. Sudler: With regard to her tone of voice and her-her eye 639 contact umm you mentioned that it was programmed. 640 How how so? Can you describe it? 641 Portolano: Oh like I would say Lisa, can you move your your 642 car? She would look right at me and go Yes, I can 643 do that . And she and she would just like 644 everything was so uh formal and umm just Lisa, 645 did you have your seatbelt on? Yes, I'did or 646 Lisa, did you hit your head? No, I did not . 647 You know it was those just duh duh duh is how 648 she was. And it and it was just kinda odd. 649 Det. Sudler: It wasn't flowing conversation? 650 Portolano: No,,she would give you an answer. It was just a one sentence answer to what you asked. And when you asked the question, that's all you got ... was 653 like one sentence until we got her in the back 654 you know and I had a chance to just really let ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Report 95-29158 AOA/Death Investigation December 6, 1995 tl-~...!;terview With Bonnie Portolano (~~ril 2, 1996) ge 21 655 know that it's okay to talk to me. And somehow I 656 got through to herI don't know how. But she would 657 open up and start telling me little things. 658 Det. Sudler: Did she say why she took the clothes off? 659 Portolano: The only reason she stated on why she took her 660 clothes off number one was because she was an OT 661 and she didn't need a body. I didn't know what that 662 meant, so I couldn't address that. 663 Det. Sudler: She didn't need a body? 664 Portolano: She didn't need a body. Umm I kinda thought 665 looney tunes you know right away. I had I 666 don't know what an OT is. I didn't know she was a Scientologist at this time and I was thinking okay...you know-it's gonna be one of these kinds 669 of call because we have them frequently. And so 670 it's like next step you know let's let's find 671 out what else is going on here. But umm now I'm 672 aware. You said OT is something very significant in 673 ... in the Church of Scientology. Umm also, she 674 stated that she took off her clothes because she 675 wanted people to think she was crazy. She says 676 1 wanted people to think I was crazy so then they 677 would help me . So she definitely wanted help. 678 Det. Sudler: Umm I've shown you some photographs here today. 679 Umm but I want to point out to you and I'm 680 going from your recollection of what Lisa looked 681 like that night when she presented to you. Now 682 these are photographs. you know albeit they're from 683 the Medical Examiner's Office at the time of her autopsy. But the Ire dated 12/6/95 and they're basically photographs ... two photographs of Lisa. 686 one was a uh 'scale by Technician John Grubb of 687 the Sheriff's office. And.uh I believe she has ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Report 95-29158 AOA/Death Investigation December 6, 1995 .....terview With Bonnie Portolano 2, 1996) ige 22 688 an endotracheal tube 689 Portolano: Yes. 690 Det. Sudler: And some evidence of medical treatment., Can you 691 describe the similarities or differences? I mean 692 ... is this in fact the person who presented themselves 693 as Lisa McPherson to you? 694 Portolano: Yes, this is Lisa McPherson. 695 Det. Sudler: Okay. What are the differences you knowin 696 her appearance and anything that you might note 697 or similarities? 698 Port'olaInitially when I saw this picture umm I noticed 699 her face looked a lot thinner. Ummshe was umm she wasn't heavy but she was very full figured. Umm ... and her face was fuller than this. This is 702 a lot thinner. Umm she has a bruise on her right 703 cheekbone or something is there. It's some kind of 704 marking. That that was not th ere. I'm looking 705 under her eye. Umm it appears her eyes didn't 706 really have bags underneath them or any you know IV, 'dark circles none of that. Her complexion was 708 totally clear. But this picture presents with like 709 what we call a raccoon's eye uh in the medical 710 field,.just bruising underneath the eye due to 711 some type of trauma to either the nose or or the 712 eyebrow bone or possibly the zygomatic the bone 713 right underneath the eye umm where there would 714 be some bruising right there. It's not a great 715 amount of bruising uh but it is.,.,.it's definitely 716 there. Umm 'I'm sorry Det.' Sudler: No, that's fine.;;that1s-,fine-;* So.- -.,;but you-would say that she looks thinner*than she did? 719 Portolano: She does look thinner than she did. And I don't 720 know what this is on her chin. But she didn't ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Report 95-29158 AOA/Death Investigation December 6, 1995 (____,,~erview With Bonnie Portolano pril 2, 1996) 'le 23 721 have any of that. 722 Det. Sudler: Okay. So none of these marks. And umm we'll 723 do 724 Portolano: Okay 725 Det. Sudler: Some more photographs here of overall photographs 726 of her legs 727 Portolano: Uh Huh. 728 Det. Sudler: -Her general phys physical stature can you 729 describe that? 730 Portolano: Okay. 731 Det. Sudler: 'When ... as compared to when you saw her before. 732* Portolano: Right. Det. Sudler: Did she have any of the bruises that were noted on her? 735 Portolano: Yeah. I'm looking right now at the lateral view 736 of her right leg and and her foot. I mean 737 geez, she's got like sores all over her foot. 738 She didn't have any of this. Her skin was totally 739 intact. There were no bruising-nothing to that 740 effect. It totally appears that there's trauma 741 to this lateral aspect of her right leg and down 742 here by umm I I would say her distal lower 743 right leg umm as well. And and her inner 744 thigh on her.left leg oh, and bruises.on her 745 inner uh left leg lower leg as well. None of 746 that none of that. 747 Det. Sudler: None of these were present? 748 Portolano: Also her hip Her hip has bruising on it. And 749 you know granted she was in a motor vehicle accident uh...that was not jarring at all. You know ... we always look or inspect for seatbelt 752. trauma right there. But she didn't have anything 753 noticed. And this.looks to be-around some of ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Report 95-29158 AOA/Death Investigation December 6, 1995 H:.;-terview With Bonnie Portolano ril 2, 1996) e 24 754 these are two different legs. It looks like maybe 755 like a looks like maybe a lip of a strap or 756 something, but 757 Det. Sudler: But she didn't have any of these marks that you're 758 referring to on the ankles 759 Portolano: Right. 760 Det. Sudler: or any of these bruises. Her her skin was 761 basically unremarkable that 762 Portolano: She was a she was very she was a-fair complected 763 woman and umm she had no markings none no 764 bruising umm no dis no noticeable like moles 765 or anything like that nothing. Det. Sudler: Okay. Portolano: And here we have like we have uh-lacerations. 768 I'm not even sure what body parts they're 769 Det. Sudler: Okay. Those those would be by the Medical 770 Examiner just to examine the depth of the bruising. 771 Portolano: Okay. 772 Det. Sudler: So those are aft 773 Portolano: Okay. 774 Det. Sudler: After autopsy or during autopsy. 775 Portolano: Yeah. 776 Det. Sudler: But none of the areas of bruising that were noted? 777 Portolano: No. 778 Det Sudler: Okay. 779 Portolano: None of that was there. And you know and. . 780 the best thing was that she took off all of her 781 clothes so that we know that she didn't have any 782 of this before. Det. Sudler: Alright. And did she complai'n of any injuries toyou? ~tss Portolano: None. 786 Det. Sudler: Okay. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Report 95-29158 AOA/Death Investigation December 6, 1995 terview With Bonnie Portolano bril 2, 1996) r_4e 25 787 Portolano: None. 788 Det. Sudler: Alright. You how long ago or how long after you 789 had taken her to Morton Plant Hospital was it that 790 you found out that she had been released and later 791 died? 792 Portolano: Well, I really can't get I mean I could get all 793 my run reports from that night and see when you 794 know the next time it was the next time I went 795 into Morton Plant and you know my nights can 796 it could've been you know two hours later- it 797 could've been six hours later. So I I'm not 798 Det. Sudler: it was the same night though? Portolano: That same night. Det. Sudler: You found out that she was released? 801 Portolano: Right. 802 Det. Sudler: And then when did you find out that she had died? 803 Portolano: I would say it was about a month later. 804 Det. Sudler:- Okay. From talking.to the same R.N.? 805 Portolano: Yeah, the same R.N. The R.N. came over to me and 806 said Hey, you remember that Scientologist you 807 brought in? I said Yeah . She said You know 808 what she died you know two weeks later . 809 So she told me. 810 Det. Sudler: And she told you what she died of? 81 . 1 Portolano: She told me she died of a pulmonary embolism. I 812 don't know what she died of but that's what I was 813 told. 814 Det. Sudler: Okay. Alright. Did she elaborate on how she had 815 found that.out? Portolano: No. Det. Sudler:. okay. 818 Portolano: I thought maybe there was justeither they do 819 patient tracking but you know they usually ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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