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The two are very close in meaning.  Couldn't this colloquial phrase be a remnant of a more Catalan-like use in French? In the light of your other post, I wonder. If I have the courage, I'll see what Gascon, Limousin and Picard have. I suspect they have the equivalent of y en en . I'm sure Gascon and Limousin do.  Not sure how they write y (or i or hi ?) in the I.d'E.O. spelling. So... isn't Spanish the odd man out, lacking them? What does Rumanian have, anyone knows? I think Spanish [ hay aside], Portuguese and Romanian are the odd men out (assuming, unless proven otherwise, that the equivalents of y and en are also in Rhaeto-Romance). But the dative 3rd. person pronominal particle in Romanian is i . You're absolutely correct: t'y as couche' doesn't sound French at all. Yes, it does, but it means: you slept there . Does this y have anything to do with M.E. y as in yclept? (= was called or se llama)

The two are very close in meaning.  Couldn't this colloquial phrase be a remnant of a more Catalan-like use in French? In the light of your other post, I wonder. If I have the courage, I'll see what Gascon, Limousin and Picard have. I suspect they have the equivalent of y en en .   I'm sure Gascon and Limousin do.  Not sure how they write y (or i or hi ?) in the I.d'E.O. spelling. So... isn't Spanish the odd man out, lacking them? What does Rumanian have, anyone knows? I think Spanish [ hay aside], Portuguese and Romanian are the odd men out (assuming, unless proven otherwise, that the equivalents of y and en are also in Rhaeto-Romance).   I can't find any mention of them in Haiman & Beninca's book; they cer- tainly don't appear in the Romontsch Grischun novel I own.  Furthermore, Routledge's _Dialects of Italy_ explicitly states that they are absent from Friulian.  How many odd men have to be out before they cease to be odd?

Does this y have anything to do with M.E. y as in yclept? (= was called or se llama) No.  [Hint: what is the German/Dutch equivalent?] == Miguel Carrasquer Vidal                     ~ ~ Amsterdam                   _____________  ~ ~ This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it                 |_____________||| ========================== Ce .sig n'est pas une .cig

Does this y have anything to do with M.E. y as in yclept? (= was called or se llama) No, that's the ME reflex of Old English <ge-, a prefix found generally in West Germanic past participles (e.g., German <singen, <sang, <gesungen). Brian M. Scott

First, I looked y and en in my heirloom Larousse encyclopedia (1902!). It says that y is from ibi , en from inde . Next, I took my eche pikar bel e rade ( Le cours de picard pour tous ). Alas, it is a tutorial, not a grammar, and I got tired of flipping through... BUT... ... I turned to the appendix, hoping to find a grammatical sketch, and I found this (I'll turn it into phonetic spelling) kaSe ( chercher = to seek) Indicative present: EZ kaS ty kaS i kaS o kaSo~ o kaSe i kaSt Uh??? I checked the other verbs, the other tenses, and there you are: Picard has retained the t of -nt of the third person plural, except in the indicative present and in the indicative future of to be and to have . And I used to believe that t had left no trace anywhere in Romance! Any others apart from Picard?

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