canasia.org

: I've been reading through this monster thread and I just wondered if : others feel, as I do, that PDF could be the typesetting of the 21st : century. : From my investigation, PDF for print matter is paving the way for seamless : digital plateless printing. Eventually the technology will implement the : necessary checks and balances at the user (customer level) and probably : offer push-button solutions. And even before the true PDF/plateless system : is refined, the lower overhead, turnkey operation that current PDF : technology provides will lure most print houses to take output issues in : house and I can kiss my bureau job goodbye. Let's face the truth; nobody : is going to pay us to push a button between coffee breaks. This is certainly the case. : I say we hold off on PDF (and onto our jobs) as long as we can or at least : until we can retrain in some other area

: To add my five cents worth to this thread, I'd like to call for some : caution on the prepress-side of things. Especially for service-bureaus. : Why in the world would you think that the job you've been doing for your : CUSTOMERS - namely troubleshooting and ripping their so often miserable : documents - will voluntarily be taken over by THEM? And have them still : pay you for doing what??? Certainly some customers don't want to know how to do their work properly, and will pay you to do it. However, I'm sure you know that other service bureaus are willing to lower their margins and work on a fairly hands-off basis for customers who are willing to take responsibility for their work. My point is this: there are customers out there right now who won't pay you for what you do! : True, if THEY distill THEIR documents properly the stuff is most likely : to output. As to the content there still is no guarantee for quality, : because just as you can create bad Post_script_, you can create bad PDF. : In other words: : What You See Is What You Get But What You Get Is Not What You Expect! : But to even get there, THEY will have to troubleshoot THEIR docs. Why : would THEY be better at doing THAT than creating the docs in the first : place? See above. Some people, in fact most of my customers, get it right the first time! : And if THEY were capable of doing all of that and still leave a sensible : piece of the job for YOU, what about editing? How will YOU replace that : Image on page 6 with the last minute shot - and still maintain : deadline?? How will YOU improve the quality of that _embed_ded 72dpi RGB : JPEG image which was supposed to be a top quality 300dpi TIFF? How will : YOU fix that vignette/blend that looks great on screen but shitty on : film?? Better face reality - there is still lots of room for error - and : less tools to fix it. Fewer tools, with the functionality that we need, would be a great thing! I want to be able to handle customers' work that I can't now! Ever try getting seps from a MS Excel chart in an all Adobe workflow? Without Scitex, Context, or Rampage type workflow, it's pretty damn difficult. Make PDF allows me to handle work that people don't even consider doing now! And I want to be a part of that... : Let's face it, you'll have a more consistent single starting point with : PDF, but the real issues at hand won't be resolved for some time to : come. Those that are whining for font and _link_ resolving should spend : more time and money educating their customers on how to avoid those : conflicts. The general method of numbing people's thrive to think and : resolve with the almighty single medicine from software developers will : only result in even greater chaos. [Simple Experience Will Tell You : That!!] I still argue that it is getting better and better. Not smoothly, there HAVE been lots of hiccups, but generally, the trend is toward better, more reliable output. : PDF is a neat idea for platform independent documents. But for task : specific solutions it leaves everything to be desired that Post_script_ : does. The Distiller seems to be the only way to create predictable PDF : and it is NOT available on every platform. If Adobe will provide a way : for applications to generate proper PDF directly you will get the same : variations and incompatibilities that you have today with apps writing : Post_script_ or EPS. Sure. Platform independence is a big deal for many people, and I for one would like to get past it! Also, with Post_script_ not demanding structure, there was a lot more room for error than there is in PDF. : What's more, many things that you take for granted in Prepress-Workflows : today is not even achievable with PDF yet. Correct. It's a good idea that is JUST becoming practical. I'm willing to bet that it won't stay impractical for long. : A PDF workflow will work well in isolated and tightly controlled : instances. As such it is just another TOOL to maximize productivity in : those cases. But it is definetely far from the all-encompassing solution : it is touted to be, because it completely ingnores the way that work for : print is produced in real life. Total disagreement. Lots of work IS produced that way in real life. More will be handled that way in the future. The comments that I hear sound to me like the prepress people of 1986-1989 who said Desktop sucks, and will never be good enough. They were right in the first half of their sentence, but DEAD WRONG in the second.

caution on the prepress-side of things. Especially for service-bureaus. Why in the world would you think that the job you've been doing for your CUSTOMERS - namely troubleshooting and ripping their so often miserable documents - will voluntarily be taken over by THEM? And have them still pay you for doing what??? True, if THEY distill THEIR documents properly the stuff is most likely to output. As to the content there still is no guarantee for quality, because just as you can create bad Post_script_, you can create bad PDF. In other words: What You See Is What You Get But What You Get Is Not What You Expect! But to even get there, THEY will have to troubleshoot THEIR docs. Why would THEY be better at doing THAT than creating the docs in the first place? And if THEY were capable of doing all of that and still leave a sensible piece of the job for YOU, what about editing? How will YOU replace that Image on page 6 with the last minute shot - and still maintain deadline?? How will YOU improve the quality of that _embed_ded 72dpi RGB JPEG image which was supposed to be a top quality 300dpi TIFF? How will YOU fix that vignette/blend that looks great on screen but shitty on film?? Better face reality - there is still lots of room for error - and less tools to fix it. Does this mean that pre-flighting PDF software is the next step? Sue

Does this mean that pre-flighting PDF software is the next step? Sue Excellent Question!!! I'm just no sure that the things I'm concerned about are detectable in preflite, and even if they were - would the be editable/fixable. Actually preflighting PDF would probably be more like postflighting!? It may help to reduce film waste, but what about deadlines??? Juergen!

Does this mean that pre-flighting PDF software is the next step? Sue Excellent Question!!! I'm just not sure that the things I'm concerned about are detectable in preflite, and even if they were - would the be editable/fixable? Actually preflighting PDF would probably be more like postflighting!? It may help to reduce film waste, but what about deadlines??? Juergen!