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One of these rules is that they are only allowed to marry one Muzlim man. Of course a Muzlim man can marry who the hell he likes and in any quantity he likes. No he cant', not in the west. What was being discussed was what Muzzies regard as permissible, not what British law says. That wasn't stated at all and wasn't what the thread was about at all so quit your lying bollocks. And seeing as this is ukpm then why should anyone assume that we were talking about benighted middle eastern countries? Or are you simply shifting the goalposts again? Ah yes, it's that of course. But anyway. A Muzlim can marry as many wives as he likes under Islamic law. Only one of them will be recognised under British law. But he can still legally claim benefits for all the others while in the UK. And the Muzzie can still regard them and treat them as his wives whatever the infidels say. It doesn't matter, if they live in the UK or the west generally, they are subject to our laws not theirs. He can give the bitches a good kicking if they get uppity as well. See above. Under Islamic law a Muslim man can kick the shit out of his bitches if he wants. It is unlikely any of them would dare to complain to the authorities. We don't have Islamic law in the west. Anybody who kicked the shit out of his wife should and would be arrested, charged and sentenced. Why not stop making up stuff up as you go along. The law is the law, find out what it says before making yourself look like an ignorant moron again.. Why don't you take your head out of your arse. Do you really think Muzzies give a fuck about western 'man made laws' when they have Gods given law on their side. They have to if they live in the west. Muzzie law gives Muzlims the right to do the things I said it does. We do not have Muslim (note spelling) law in the west. In the value system of Muzzies, it is all permissible. It may well be but we do not live in Muslim countries so there is no reason to bother with their backwardness in their own unless you can do something about it. It doesn't matter if they are subject to our laws or not. My daft daughter* has got involved with another Muslim boy - this one is 'strict' (aka hypocrite) - he insists on the dog being put out of the way before he will come in, and telephones all his friends before he takes her out to see where they are, and spends all evening staring nervously around in case he is spotted. Should I be worried? What about the possibility that he just wants to shag her because he cannot get near any of the strict Muslim girls his parents would approve of? What if they are real nutters like those blokes that killed their own sister because she went with a non-Muslim? With four Muslim girls a week approaching the fuzz because they are scared of being victim of an 'honour' offence, should my daughter worry, or should we just relax, since these things are against the law in the UK? * In case anyone is wondering, she likes them because they are polite, generally take care of themselves, smart appearance, clean, respectful of their parents, good jobs, not mucking about on skateboards and getting smashed out of their faces until they are 26. Every silver lining has a cloud etc. Just out of interest, have you spent any time trying to persuade your daughter not to go out with this Muslim boy? Lol...hours and hours. She just thinks I hate all her bf's, but so far she has had a Jehovah's Witness who made her life hell because she would not convert and then went with a JW girl behind her back for 6 months, an Iraqi control freak who removed her self-esteem by insulting her daily for 18 months ('it's not his fault, it's mine'), and a 30 year old man (she's only 17) with hundreds of under-18 year old girls on his social networking profiles ('he's not a pervert'). The advice I have received so far is 'let her make her own mistakes and pick up the pieces afterwards'. If I said no, you're not doing this, she would literally run away.  She also thinks I am just prejudiced, because she has been taught that everyone is nice and equal - she makes no allowance for the sheer unworkable practicalities of these relationships. I never give up though! Men! Have you ever thought the problem may lay (excuse the pun) with your daughter and her self-esteme levels rather than mixed- relationships? I have a number of female friends and relatives in successful mixed-marriages/relationships and what they all have in common is the self-respect to be choosy! Likewise I know women who’ve found plenty of White Anglo-Saxon arseholes out there!- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Sorry Maria, I read that back and it sounded really insulting! I was not meaning any disrespect to your daughter just that you know what it is like when you are first trying to find your own identity and confidence in the world and this is combined with the desire to love and be loved. Confidence to discern the good from the bad is something you learn as you get older and that was my point. Once again I am really sorry for how my last post must of sounded. I’ll shut up now! :-/ No you're right - if you met her and knew how shy she was....she can't say out loud when someone is really upsetting her, when most right- minded people would have told that person to sling their hook. She ended up putting up with months of insults and put-downs and blaming herself.

and all this trouble has happened because they could not. How do you think the Ottoman Empire got there? The Empire fairy put it there? The war in Iraq happened because the West could not keep itself to itself. Where I am moving to in Bulgaria, hundreds of thousands of innocent people were killed simply because they were Christians. The Russians came to their rescue - we sided with the Muslims. I am not going to kid myself that these people who are nice enough to talk to and have lunch with, can always always get along with us, however much we want to get along with them. And they could say the same thing. They are seperatists, which is why they live largely in seperate communities. It's a fact, and no amount of adoration for the multicultural ethic can change that. When the two come together, there is conflict - it has happened for thousands of years, and it is happening right now. Facts, not fantasy. Nonsense you mean (on the conflict).There are loonies about in every society and of every colour. One should not _base_ one's choices or life on what they do. This being said, I'm against 'multiculturalism', completely against. Anyone can keep up their traditions and  live them as long as they bother no one else with them, or others accept them; one man's freedom ends where the other's begins. As long as that is the case there is no problem. However to allow the separation of a nation into little groups, ghettoisation in sum, is utter folly. When in Rome do as the Romans do and the choice of  successive UK governments to allow and encourage this separation was and is stupidity of the first order. Over the years, I have changed from your point of view to mine, which is now that people stay apart for a reason, and that is how countries and nations were formed in the first place. However inconvenient it may be, it's human nature. I cannot think of any law or brainwashing technique, that will make Islamic fundies want to live with Christians or atheists, or make the rich want to live with the poor, or the clever want to live with the stupid, or the law-abiding want to live next door to the feckless. I can go to areas where white people who are even of the same 'tribe' live in seperate communities 50 feet apart with just a road inbetween, because they will tend to mix only with people they have something in common with. It has always been that way, and I can't imagine it being any other way. We cannot afford to stay seperate in one single country, because one group will always be vying for control of that country. I think on the whole it would have been better if they had never come, or were only allowed to stay for a while while they were working. The whole mess is going to get worse now, with people speaking so many different languages - communication is vital for peaceful communities - 'community leaders' will have to spring up to speak for them, and before you know it...oh look...it's tribalism all over again...1 million years of evolutionary spread undone in 50 years.

I think on the whole it would have been better if they had never come, or were only allowed to stay for a while while they were working. The whole mess is going to get worse now, with people speaking so many different languages - communication is vital for peaceful communities - 'community leaders' will have to spring up to speak for them, and before you know it...oh look...it's tribalism all over again...1 million years of evolutionary spread undone in 50 years. Maria, don't you think there is something a little hypocritical in your argument? You intend to move to Bulgaria and I wish you the very best in that, but in doing so you will be an immigrant. How will it be if the people in your new country have the attitude you show here?

One of these rules is that they are only allowed to marry one Muzlim man. Of course a Muzlim man can marry who the hell he likes and in any quantity he likes. No he cant', not in the west. But he certainly can in e.g. Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia isn't the west

is still in your charge. The former relationships and abuse took place over the internet and telephone, in my house. Aside from taking away her phone, computer, and locking her in her bedroom, there was not much I could do about it than try to reason with her. Well you could have taken away the internet and the telephone. As you mention elsewhere, she is on the list for counselling and it seems she needs it. She's not a drastic case obviously but this is the last chance you have to put her on the straight and narrow. If she carries on as she is then she could end up with a real loony rather than just some arsehole, which happens to lots of people. She is over 16 - she has some rights in law and one of them is to choose her own partner, whether I approve of him or not. Yes she does but she does not have the right to do as she wishes. There are plenty of women of all nationalities who come out with shit like yes he beats me up but I love him . Nice to see that your global tolerance extends to immature girls of 17 that know little of the world and of men yet. Then it is (still) up to you to put her right. If I knew how to do that...you can't put an old head on young shoulders. The more I put her right, the more she rebels. It's normal. Yes it's 'normal', that is to say common, but that is not a reason to give up and let her have her way. * In case anyone is wondering, she likes them because they are polite, generally take care of themselves, smart appearance, clean, respectful of their parents, good jobs, not mucking about on skateboards and getting smashed out of their faces until they are 26. Every silver lining has a cloud etc. Are they nice people or aren't they, It's not that black and white and you must know that. please decide instead of trying to have your cake and eat it. What is wrong with you? I get on fine with Muslims - I have always been welcomed by them, get on with them, am impressed by their hospitality and intelligence and values. I ve never suggested the contrary. But on the one hand you are complaining about this boyfriend and on the other you are saying that he is a nice bloke. He is a nice bloke who is a strict Muslim - he will either use her because he wants a girl and can't have one from his own circle, or will love her and it will end in tears because his family won't accept her. She may be expected to convert, or they might do what is necessary to stop him seeing her.  In the West, the boy would probably stick two fingers up to his family - strict Muslim boys tend to respect their parents to the extent that they will accept an arranged marriage against their will. This is a (sad) fact of life - reality. I'm not really sure why I have to explain this...I thought it was self- evident. Then in my opinion he is not a 'nice boy'. I had a lovely Kashmiri boyfriend - it had to stop because his parents had told him what kind of girl he was going to marry, and I wasn't it. He was 34 and I was 36. It's just the way it is. Lucky you to not have got involved further. Every cloud etc. In other countries. I don't have to be bombed by them because I am the wrong religion, or have my daughter kerosened because she married the wrong bloke.  At the moment. But the more we mix as people, the more likely these things are to happen. Hmm; I don't believe that that is true. The more people there are from such backgrounds then the more chance there is of it happening in theory but on the other hand they are no longer in the situation they would find at home and so subject to less social pressure on that score. And of course we can influence them more than they can influence us.Tolerance is not acceptation of everything. Most of the people who came here previously accepted the premise that they obey British law and don't try to change it (which is why they kept mostly to themselves).  The new generations do not - there is a global Islamic movement of extremism spreading around just as the jobs and wealth and goods are spreading around. It was inevitable really, and inevitably, those things are spreading to members of our Islamic 'home-grown' community. The freedom of speech principle in this country has allowed people to come here and preach hatred and seperatism in the mosques. The rational might ask why turkeys would vote for Christmas, but it seems that there are people who are willing to give up their freedom and even their life, for some notion of pleasing God. And they should be resisted at every turn, that includes not letting them have access to one's children be it for a quick shag or just to show off how they got a 'whitey'. I don't understand it, but I cannot deny that it happens, and is happening more and more. Yes, many are turning away from Islam and even their families to live a secular life due to our (benign) influence, but many are turning the other way in response to that...and are even prepared to suicide bomb their own countrymen on the London Underground. 'Many' is not quite the truth. There is a very good percentage of people from Mulsim backgrounds in the UK, those who take part in such things are a very, very tiny minority. They are seperatists, which is why they live largely in seperate communities. It's a fact, and no amount of adoration for the multicultural ethic can change that. When the two come together, there is conflict - it has happened for thousands of years, and it is happening right now. Facts, not fantasy. Nonsense you mean (on the conflict).There are loonies about in every society and of every colour. One should not _base_ one's choices or life on what they do. This being said, I'm against 'multiculturalism', completely against. Anyone can keep up their traditions and  live them as long as they bother no one else with them, or others accept them; one man's freedom ends where the other's begins. As long as that is the case there is no problem. However to allow the separation of a nation into little groups, ghettoisation in sum, is utter folly. When in Rome do as the Romans do and the choice of  successive UK governments to allow and encourage this separation was and is stupidity of the first order. Over the years, I have changed from your point of view to mine, which is now that people stay apart for a reason, and that is how countries and nations were formed in the first place. However inconvenient it may be, it's human nature. I cannot think of any law or brainwashing technique, that will make Islamic fundies want to live with Christians or atheists, or make the rich want to live with the poor, or the clever want to live with the stupid, or the law-abiding want to live next door to the feckless. I can go to areas where white people who are even of the same 'tribe' live in seperate communities 50 feet apart with just a road inbetween, because they will tend to mix only with people they have something in common with. It has always been that way, and I can't imagine it being any other way. Birds of a feather have always flocked together but that does not mean they can't live in close proximity perfectly happily, the live and let live principal. I am surrounded by all sorts of nationalities, including many people from Muslim countries, it isn't a problem at all. There is a problem in the UK, I grant you that, but it isn't the one you describe, that people *can't* live together. We cannot afford to stay seperate in one single country, because one group will always be vying for control of that country. You think so? I don't. There are all sorts of groups everywhere but who really among them vies for control? I think on the whole it would have been better if they had never come, or were only allowed to stay for a while while they were working. The whole mess is going to get worse now, with people speaking so many different languages - communication is vital for peaceful communities - 'community leaders' will have to spring up to speak for them, and before you know it...oh look...it's tribalism all over again...1 million years of evolutionary spread undone in 50 years. Maria, don't you think there is something a little hypocritical in your argument? You intend to move to Bulgaria and I wish you the very best in that, but in
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